Who won?
I'm sure Markus did but would appreciate if someone can share with us who won this years MHSAA/VoR elections. Thanks...
In my lifetime....I'd be a Reagan man. Yeah, you are well aware of how I feel about our current President/War Criminal.
If not the best President of ALL time...at least during my lifetime.
Lee, I'm surprised you are not more partial toward Abe Lincoln.....
Since he was a Republican. Nonetheless...Ronnie was my hero. Who was your favorite Prez, Moe? Let me guess...George W. Bush?
If not the best President of ALL time...at least during my lifetime.
Lee, I'm surprised you are not more partial toward Abe Lincoln.....
with the last comment about money etc. as well. Thanks for answering what you can, I can appreciate your info now, however if people continually say their sources can not be revealed than it is still hard to buy into everything that everyone says. I understand that it is a catch 22 where if you would reveal your sources, you would no longer have a source, but it would add validity to your claims. But thanks for your response Clay.
"Sources" can't be revealed for a host of reasons. Clay and I are on the same page here as well as, in particular, his third paragraph. Well said Clay though I wish some others would feel the same. Some of us do, for sure, yet you're right...sad to say that money can "...bring out the worst and there is a lot of money to be had at MHS."
In my former capacity at Dallas Data Systems we explored a working relationship with a company located in Lancaster. That company is the company that sold MHS a 3 million dollar street light system that didn't work. They were pretty happy that MHS footed the bill for their R&D, but the system never worked and the company went out of business.
As for the second issue. I can't out my sources, but I can tell you that the IT Director (or whatever his title is) brags about his capital budget and how he has to refresh equipment unnecessarily just to spend it all. I can say that I have heard this from more that two sources.
I have nothing to gain. I don't want anything from the school. I love the school and appreciate what it did for me. I would like to know that the resources that the school has at it's disposal are being used to serve as many children as possible. I don't believe that is happening, based on my own personal experiences and stories from people I trust.
People generally want to believe that people are good and decent. They don't want to see the bad, but money tends to bring out the worst and there is a lot of money to be had at MHS.
If not the best President of ALL time...at least during my lifetime.
I always admired Ronald Reagan
It just makes for more confusion and distrust.....where do you all get these "facts" or the details about all the spending and dealings?
My intention was not to take a jab at Markus. I was curious as to who the "...certain board members" were. No doubt members of MHSAA/VoR. Do keep in mind that another one they like is Duey Craven. He wasn't elected last year either though he made it on as the Florida Chapter Rep, I believe. I have my reasons as to why I think neither was elected but I'll keep that to myself.
Bottom line though, it doesn't much matter to me because the VoR will maintain control of MHSAA so long as they so desire. While that bothers me, personally, the larger objective, by far, is reform of MHS and its BOM.
Case closed though I'll reiterate my view that I hope Markus runs next year. I hope, even more, that he'll see some of the light that I tried offering to him, you and others. I'm sure you feel far more comfortable with Clay than me so, at least, recognize his point which is a good one.
As in who? As in SPECIFICALLY who?
Secondly I would like to note that Lee's heart is in the right place. Lee would never ask me to defend him and at this point it may not be welcome. We have every reason to be wary of conspiracies. When I find out that MHS spent 3 million dollars on an experimental street light system that never worked (The company is out of business) or that the capital budget for IT is 16 million and that they replace their servers every year....I cringe. Everybody has their hand out when there is that much money in play and it is so easy to become fat, happy and corrupt when you are sitting on top of that pile.
Your point is well taken and clearly understood with respect to being "...wary of conspiracies." As I'm sure you know, we do all we can to provide information to all alumni based on facts. It's very disheartening that elected members of MHSAA/VoR rarely communicate and then when they do, as Bill did below, it's confusing and seldom very specific.
For example, and this is Brill's alone...his "Early labeling" post below along with his "Lee" post where he says "See you around. I have some of my own investigating to do." Though I have my hunch, nonetheless, both are very unclear. I try my best to provide specifics and wish someone like Brill would do the same.
Oh, and thanks for your support to Clay...especially because I think you're correct in feeling that "...it may not be welcome."
Your response on 8/24/08
"Which ones are VoR/VoR like-minded and which are not? Isn't it Hanawalt, Halbleib, Russell, and Murphy? Any others?
I don't know the others but if they are NOT VoR/VoR likeminded, I'd vote for them. Then again, I don't think I will since I've rec'd no ballot. "
You will note that without any knowledge of Mr. Shadel, you concluded the same.
This appears to be a false accusation Bill as I have NO clue of what your talking about. My question was quite simple and direct in wanting to know "what others" were "VOR/VOR like-minded".
Are you also trying to make a false assumption of how I feel toward Mr. Shadel? It appears that way to me.
First of all I would like to express my sadness that Markus did not win a seat on the BOD.
Secondly I would like to note that Lee's heart is in the right place. Lee would never ask me to defend him and at this point it may not be welcome. We have every reason to be wary of conspiracies. When I find out that MHS spent 3 million dollars on an experimental street light system that never worked (The company is out of business) or that the capital budget for IT is 16 million and that they replace their servers every year....I cringe. Everybody has their hand out when there is that much money in play and it is so easy to become fat, happy and corrupt when you are sitting on top of that pile.
Lee,
Your response on 8/24/08
"Which ones are VoR/VoR like-minded and which are not? Isn't it Hanawalt, Halbleib, Russell, and Murphy? Any others?
I don't know the others but if they are NOT VoR/VoR likeminded, I'd vote for them. Then again, I don't think I will since I've rec'd no ballot. "
You will note that without any knowledge of Mr. Shadel, you concluded the same.
So where/when did I ask about "...whom encouraged Markus to enter the race."? Please advise so I can properly address your point; however, if I didn't than rest assured I'll accept your apology.
Speaking of apologies, I really find it highly unfair that you would make such an outlandish assumption as to how I would have reacted had Markus won the election. Not only is that unfair but you then invoke some sort of "pattern" against me based upon your assumption. That's pure speculation and, just so you know, it's flat out wrong.
It was a simple question....just as you feel it is irrelevant to reveal who the owner etc. of the other site is, I feel it is equally irrelevant as to whom encouraged Markus to enter the race. It doesn't matter, in fact I am sure there are others that were also encouraged, just as I was earlier this year. As for our site members not being active, there are plenty that are active, but we have both....I really don't think Markus goes around bragging about the numbers, when there is a milestone, yes he puts it on the front page....so what. Like I said, i was not attacking you, not sure how you were sticking up for Markus, I have a feeling if he WAS voted in you would have said, " Of course Markus got the seat cuz he is Johnny O's blah blah blah" but since he didn't get voted in, it is conspiracy on another level....See the pattern Lee?
See you around. I have some of my own investigating to do.
I have no database that is used to email alumni on how to vote. On a one-off basis, an alumnus may ask an opinion. While working the polls at Homecoming, a classmate of mine asked me who to vote for. He said he knew none of the candidates. I advised him not to vote.
I live outside DC and have never participated in any “boiler room” activity to make calls.
Richard "Dick" Shadel and his wife Polly are terrific people and are very well known in the Hershey area. Both retired from the school after many years of service. They also were houseparents and attended numerous Spartan sporting events. Anybody who ever went to the Dearden House probably knows Polly. I am told that she sets the standard for volunteerism. At the Saturday evening banquet, she was inducted as an honorary member of our Alumni Association. The name “Shadel” is equated with integrity and excellence.
Richard "Dick" attends most Alumni Association Board meetings as a guest.
When true reform of the BOM and MHS happens, and it will, then you can rest assured I'll "...move on". Unlike you Bill, my loyalty is to our benefactor rather than John O'Brien.
And please...don't try to fool me or others in saying VoR no longer exists. Fact is, it does only now it's called MHSAA which is why I always refer to your group as MHSAA/VoR. In effect, one and the same.
And saying you have "...no database"? There you go again Billy-Bob. How 'bout if I get Sonny Jenkins on here to ask you, repeatedly as before, the questions about how you acquired the email database you got several years ago...and that you never replied, specifically, back to him via the old MHSAA Forum? Or is your memory failing you?
As for Richard (sorry but on this website you can't type D-I-C-K cause it'll replace it with superhero or something like that) Shadel, I don't know him and suspect few outside of Hershey do other than his classmates. No, I'm not slamming him so don't even suggest it. What I'm saying is that because he lives in Central PA and, most likely, a member of the Homestead Chapter is why he likely got lots of votes from alumni in that area as well...most of whom are members of your VoR group.
Ya think?
PS Markus...please note that I'm aware of these things due to my being "proactively involved".
PPS Too bad...sorry to see you've moved this to the sequestered Debate Club area.
Here I am sticking up for your husband and yet both you and he come back with attacks against me? Sheesh...do they have the water pipes thorough out Derry Twp. hooked up to the O'Brien Kool-Aid bar now or what?
Who is the owner of our website? Why in the world is that important or even relevant? Just ask Markus to look it up on the internet. He's smart about this stuff and am sure it's easy to find out. Because ours is a privately owned website I'll let you do your own research even though it'd be a waste of time.
And isn't it amazing that you reference the many who sign up but aren't "...active on the site"? If that's really true, which I'm sure it is, then why does Markus keep bragging about all those who are on his website? Heck, on our website we have issues with robot software (ask Markus, he'll explain it to you). Point is that we could have hundreds more on our website but, in the end, it's NOT about numbers...rather, it's about involvement and participation.
And, for that I continue to commend Markus for the creation of this website. Sure, I know you don't like my reference to it as "warm and fuzzy" but it is...and that's a good thing. On the other hand, our website is mostly about controversy...National politics and matters pertaining to MHS. I think, overall, those who participate here and over on ours are fortunate to have to unique, differing websites.
that make alot of younger alumni NOT want to get involved, because of those types of comments, I often find myself NOT trusting anyone in leadership at the school, and questioning my own judgement of what they have to say. So if everyone is liars, than how do we know who we should trust.....including your group????? Not helping in the cause of getting younger alumni to be involved. Just thought i would point that out.
Blizburgh, you really do need to be more proactively involved to cure yourself of your conspiracy theory mindset. I mean no disrespect but truly believe this to be one way to change how you feel about the mhsaa and the BOD.
Also in answer to your question about the "Debate Club". If you remember I put up a poll two years ago and asked the members of themilt.com how they think hot/controversial topics about MHS & MHSAA should be handled. The name and idea was supplied by and for the members of themilt.com and no one else. I think they used it because it's catchy. :-)
And I mean it, no disrespect intended, yet I have no doubt that someday there will be a wake up call and a LOT of exposure will be made about VoR. How do I know that Markus? Because I AM proactively involved and would urge you not to be so naive and trusting of those who've proven their true intent...personal and professional self-serving interests.
Again, I have no doubt that it will eventually come out in the open. The real question is...will you be able to realize your misunderstandings and openly admit it? I hope so.
answer to the question, "who is the owner, creator, and or administrator(s) of the website Milton Hershey Forums, then I may consider revealing the identity of the person (s) who encouraged Markus to run. As for your comments about the 777 that are on themilt.com, which is now over 840, just because they have at one time or another signed up, doesn't mean they are currently active on the site, and just because they are on the site doesn't mean they like Markus or felt he would be well suited for the job. Just because they are on themilt.com doesn't mean they have voted at all, some people still choose to not be bothered with that kind of thing. I agree Dick Shadel and his wife are always at MHS functions and volunteering their time, as well as attending the meetings, he really should get the board seat.
Specifically that. I have wondered that myself because the only place I have seen VOR used was on http://208.112.103.179/forums
I am sure that the candidates with the most votes won. If I run next year (God willing) I will need to do a better job of campaigning and getting voters to cast their votes.
Blizburgh, you really do need to be more proactively involved to cure yourself of your conspiracy theory mindset. I mean no disrespect but truly believe this to be one way to change how you feel about the mhsaa and the BOD.
Also in answer to your question about the "Debate Club". If you remember I put up a poll two years ago and asked the members of themilt.com how they think hot/controversial topics about MHS & MHSAA should be handled. The name and idea was supplied by and for the members of themilt.com and no one else. I think they used it because it's catchy. 
There no longer is any VoR group. It has been gone for about two years. You and a few others are the only ones using that term.
I have no database that is used to email alumni on how to vote. On a one-off basis, an alumnus may ask an opinion. While working the polls at Homecoming, a classmate of mine asked me who to vote for. He said he knew none of the candidates. I advised him not to vote.
I live outside DC and have never participated in any “boiler room” activity to make calls.
Richard "Dick" Shadel and his wife Polly are terrific people and are very well known in the Hershey area. Both retired from the school after many years of service. They also were houseparents and attended numerous Spartan sporting events. Anybody who ever went to the Dearden House probably knows Polly. I am told that she sets the standard for volunteerism. At the Saturday evening banquet, she was inducted as an honorary member of our Alumni Association. The name “Shadel” is equated with integrity and excellence.
Richard "Dick" attends most Alumni Association Board meetings as a guest.
And I know that there are other Board members who would concur.
A response from a MHSAA/VoR Board member...thank you Billy-Bob. Now how 'bout completing the quiz...k? I've done a cut/paste (below) so it'll be easier for you but I'll do even better by asking you pointed, direct questions. As a representative of ALL alumni I hope you'll respond specifically to each question:
Did your VoR group refine its database to the point where you feel safe in emailing to your members of 500, plus or minus...asking them to vote and, if so, who for?
Does your VoR group still do boiler room calls to your group? If so, who made the calls this year? And please, if it comes down to it being factual that calls were made by what you'll likely say was your former VoR group then that's fine. I'd just like to know if calls were made...yes or no. If so, by whom?
I sure find it amazingly difficult to believe that Markus would have lost to Richard (am putting Richard instead of his other name) Shadel. 777 alumni know Markus, directly or indirectly whereas the only ones who would best know Shadel would be those in the VoR group.
Ya think?
I find it fascinating that Markus Murphy wasn't elected...what with 777 members on his website. Now I suspect most associated with VoR and their Homestead Chapter don't even know who he is...just as most that are on Markus' website wouldn't even know who superhero Shadel is...yet the latter easily won.
So how about sharing with us your secrets, if any? Have you all refined your database to the point that you feel safe in emailing to your group of 500? Or, are boiler room calls made just prior to the election and, if so...by whom? Could it be you and/or Brill, Gould, Mattis, Purcell, Carfagno, Alexander and others? I would hope you'd have no problem in sharing this with anyone as I'm sure you're quite proud of your continued success in VoR members being easily elected to MHSAA.
that Markus would be a tremendous asset to the Alumni Association Board and I encourage him to run again.
And I know that there are other Board members who would concur.
As in who? As in SPECIFICALLY who?
Please understand that I don't necessarily feel people are required to share any/all things with anyone they don't want to...however, when someone's an elected representative and asked a question by a member than they should. That's been one of my problems with the current MHSAA/VoR elected representatives. Seldom, if ever, do any of them respond. Duey does but that's about it. Jerry Long, Bob Heist, Glen Alexander, Jim Gould...on and on, as far as I know, never do (key word..."never").
MHSAA/VoR has now set up their website. It took what...three years? And when they said a new forum would be up and running soon? Since Halbleib was apparently in charge, like many lawyers, his definition of the word "soon" is quite longer than normal folks.
Anyhow...and I'm addressing this to you Linda and Markus...I see they too have sequestered a group called...guess what? (Correct...The Debate Club). Just curious Markus...before you sequestered your Debate Club, was it recommended to you by anyone or did you come up with the idea all by yourself? If the former, who made the "suggestion" to you?
And Linda, I sure hope your not being naive in what appears to be apparent trust you have in the current members of the MHSAA/VoR BoD. That said, let me share with you what I posted on their Debate Club. Markus can likely find it since he's good with software but, I guess, most won't. I initiated a post in asking questions of Bill Brill. I figured he might reply since he's a member of the group yet, not surprisingly, he has yet to do so.
And then I made another post about the elections and addressed it to both Billy-Bob and John Halbleib too since the latter had just joined the Debate Club. Here's what I posted but have yet to see a reply from either Brill or Halbleib:
"C'mon Billy-Bob...how 'bout a reply now that it's on a website you and yours control? If not, you could too John Halbleib since I see you just signed on to this segregated group you all created. In this case, let's address the recent elections.
I find it fascinating that Markus Murphy wasn't elected...what with 777 members on his website. Now I suspect most associated with VoR and their Homestead Chapter don't even know who he is...just as most that are on Markus' website wouldn't even know who Dick Shadel is...yet the latter easily won.
So how about sharing with us your secrets, if any? Have you all refined your database to the point that you feel safe in emailing to your group of 500? Or, are boiler room calls made just prior to the election and, if so...by whom? Could it be you and/or Brill, Gould, Mattis, Purcell, Carfagno, Alexander and others? I would hope you'd have no problem in sharing this with anyone as I'm sure you're quite proud of your continued success in VoR members being easily elected to MHSAA.
Speaking of which John, is it true you haven't attended any meetings...or even most of the the MHSAA BoD meetings?"
I'm sharing this with all on here but more so for you Linda. I'll not make any comments as I'm hoping it may spark some questions of them in your own mind.
it proved to me that it really is a vote, fair and square. Markus was told by certain board members that he would be a tremendous asset, they are the ones who put the idea in the room, so the very fact that he didn't get picked, tells me, it truly is a vote, and he just didn't have enough votes to win. We are fine with the results at this point we are both trying to get our feet wet by getting involved here and there, but it may be wise to watch some other young alumni and see how things are done, and where we would best fit in.
Though, in effect and as I understand, that's basically what they've done by allowing any current member to run again, again and again. The VoR has a strong base of 500 who support them and again, in my opinion, because of personal and/or professional self-serving reasons. Quite frankly though, given the what...800 or so members on this website and that on this homepage Markus sought votes, I was very much surprised he didn't win.
I don't know who "Shadel" is but I do know that Hanawalt, Halbleib and Russell are VoR members. My guess is that Shadel is too. Apparently, VoR was able to round up enough of there members, mostly from Central PA, to vote for these four. Nonetheless, that 75% on here wouldn't vote for Markus to insure his win is something I just don't understand. Another suggests it may be due to "apathy". Maybe so but each on here should know, as to themselves, whether or not that's true.
Though I don't know Markus, I still choose to believe he means to do well...even though I still perceive that he's Pro Billy-Bob and others tied to VoR. If my perception is even close to being correct I hope it gives him a better and far clearer understanding as to why some of us do not trust those with VoR at all.
Key words..."I hope..."
Sometimes the best man does not win...... next year bro!
Rena! Great to see you!
they'll amend the by-laws again...that way they can create life-terms...just like Supreme Court Justices...
Exactly 1 hour after I posted "If I had a pen" it shows up in the "news" section of the new mhsaa.org site.
The following individuals (listed in alphabetical order by last name) were elected as new MHSAA Directors, and will serve a three year term from calendar year 2009 through calendar year 2011.
* John F. Halbleib, MHS Class of 1971
* John B. Hanawalt, MHS Class of 1970
* Brian J. Russell, MHS Class of 1976
* Richard L. "Dick" Shadel, MHS Class of 1954
On behalf of all of its members, MHSAA wishes to express its congratulations to each, as well as sincere appreciation for their undertaking the associated responsibility.
Things usually work out for the better. You had my vote. I even mailed it in this year. Last year's didn't get mailed in time.
That was my fault Blitz, I spelled "Dick" Shadel's name wrong on miltonhersheyforums.
I also think you should run again.
I can't believe you didn't win. Who, by the way, is "Schadel"? Again, while I do care about MHSAA and the importance of it returning to the independent organization it once was prior to VoR takeover; nonetheless, my greater concern...by far...is reform of MHS and the BOM so that the mission of our benefactor is renewed.
I agree with Bob Newton and encourage you, Markus, to run again.
Lee
PS Do you know what the vote count was for EACH candidate? Thanks...
sorry you didn't win Murph.
Markus: I hope you plan on running again next year. The AA definitely needs some younger leaders with open minds & new ideas
I would have thought they would have posted them in the "news" section of the new mhsaa.org site by now.
I am sure it was the outcome at this time that best fits my life anyway.
Hannawalt, Halbleib, Russell, Schadel
In my lifetime....I'd be a Reagan man. Yeah, you are well aware of how I feel about our current President/War Criminal.
I don't know a Moe Greene.